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#579656 - August 18th 2012 7:29 pm Re: Replacing Disk brake rotors? don't trust the installed races. [Re: wrcsixeight]
Phoenix Offline
pooh-bah

Registered: September 13th 2008 4:42 pm
Posts: 3156
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
I crammed it full and when I pushed the outer bearings in , grease squirted out. I have done this on my chevy and Dodges for ever and never had a problem and that has been 38 years of vans. I am 60 now ...YUK but never had a wheel bearing problem. Over lubing a mechanical joint is impossible. Our "Just Passin' Through" trailer with eight inch wheels got a squirt of grease every time we got gas, 100,000 miles on those bearings and still look like new as I just gave that trailer away last month. Pulled the wheels and hubs after almost thirty years and still looked like new. There is no noticeable heat to expand grease if there is no reason for them to get hot over normal operating temps. Those temps will not blow out seals. GREASE'EM thick. I have never touched the fronts on the phoenix after I did them when it was new in 1986. I cleaned them up and repacked them around ten years ago. And crammed the bearing cavities full again as usual with Valvoline black wheel bearing grease. GOOD stuff !


Edited by Phoenix (August 18th 2012 7:32 pm)
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#579690 - August 19th 2012 6:13 am Re: Replacing Disk brake rotors? don't trust the installed races. [Re: Phoenix]
wrcsixeight Offline
veteran

Registered: April 30th 2010 8:57 pm
Posts: 1631
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: Phoenix
There is no noticeable heat to expand grease if there is no reason for them to get hot over normal operating temps. Those temps will not blow out seals. GREASE'EM thick.



Playing devil's advocate here, but

The rotors themselves are giant heat sinks. Think how hot they get on long down hill stretches with a lot of braking.
How about those 8 degree grades in the West that go on for miles and miles? The speed of the bearings at 75 mph and the heat from slowing down a 3 to 4 ton vehicle in those conditions must test the best of wheel bearing greases.

However, I don't know how much the grease would expand, or if it would blow the seals.

I don't think it would be easy to eliminate all the air inside the hub anyway when packing bearings.

I know they say on boat trailers to pack the hubs completely full, so that if hot bearing housings get dipped in cold water, the contracting air within will not suck in large amounts of water and contaminate the grease.

Supposedly the marine greases for boat trailers can handle more water contamination than automotive greases, but cannnot handle the higher temperatures of disc brake rotors

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#579926 - August 20th 2012 6:21 pm Re: Replacing Disk brake rotors? don't trust the installed races. [Re: wrcsixeight]
Phoenix Offline
pooh-bah

Registered: September 13th 2008 4:42 pm
Posts: 3156
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
Hey , Not a problem here, everyone's got their favorite way to do things and , you know, there is a hundred different ways to do something right. In here you just have to read and take advise that sounds workable or ignore it and do it your own way.
_________________________
Cheers!

Been There, done that, Member of those....

Built for comfort not for speed angel....Well speed too !...smile

I am a vanner, Promise me the world, give me nothing, I'll be back ... next year !

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#579927 - August 20th 2012 6:31 pm Re: Replacing Disk brake rotors? don't trust the installed races. [Re: wrcsixeight]
Doc 2% of Canada, EH!!!! Offline
Vanner

Registered: June 10th 2003 12:00 pm
Posts: 12337
Loc: Burlington, On, Canada Eh !!!!
When I change the rotors, I change the bearings, races and seal....re-torque them again at 500 and 1000 miles....

On trailer bearings, Ric from our club takes the hubs, drill and taps a hole in between the bearings, and inserts a grease nipple , and a grease gun works great on them......same drill, re-tourqe after 500 and a thousand miles.....

And Never Ever mis-match parts !!! A race is only a punch and two taps to replace....a side of the highway repair or tow costs way more !
_________________________
I don't need to be honoured by Vanning, I am honoured to be Vanning !
Supporting Vanning, by going Vanning!
I hate it, when real life interferes with Vanning !
Ford Lover now in a Ford Body !
97Errorstar,05 Freestar
Van Clan Plus One, Vanning since 1977 !
Ontario Federation Of Truckers (Vanner's)
Ottawa Valley Vans
Founder,Mixed Bag Truckers
Co-Founder,Twisted Truckers,S Joisey,
If you don't like my sense of humour,don't read my posts !

Never assemble an engine after BUCKET !!

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#579954 - August 20th 2012 8:31 pm Re: Replacing Disk brake rotors? don't trust the installed races. [Re: Doc 2% of Canada, EH!!!!]
Phoenix Offline
pooh-bah

Registered: September 13th 2008 4:42 pm
Posts: 3156
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
yeah
I use bearing buddies, bought at most marine shops, for trailers. My "just Passin' Through" trailer with eight inch wheels and Holesclaw axle and hubs went 60,000 miles greasing the alles every other time for gas stops. Just gave the trailer to Gary Sholders and did a repack for him just before he left and the bearings looked like new. crammed the cavity full as usual with grease. You just can't over lube a mechanical joint. It sometimes is messy with too much lube but you can't over lube.
_________________________
Cheers!

Been There, done that, Member of those....

Built for comfort not for speed angel....Well speed too !...smile

I am a vanner, Promise me the world, give me nothing, I'll be back ... next year !

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#580062 - August 21st 2012 2:28 pm Re: Replacing Disk brake rotors? don't trust the installed races. [Re: wrcsixeight]
wrcsixeight Offline
veteran

Registered: April 30th 2010 8:57 pm
Posts: 1631
Loc: San Diego
Phoenix, I was not blowing off your advice, sorry if it sounded that way.

When I installed my outer bearings, grease was pushed out from between the rollers, so It is stuffed.

Doc, I never did re torque my last set of bearings, not that it would have made a difference with mismatched races anyway, but I will be sure to do so this time. I already have some new Stainless steel cotter pins ready for it.

Curious as to how you guys torque your bearings. I went 1/8 turn beyond finger tight and spun the tire a few revs, then 1/4 past finger tight and a few more turns, then backed the nut off and then just put it finger tight and put in the cotter pin.

What is your method? My factory service manual says nothing about this.

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#580130 - August 21st 2012 7:12 pm Re: Replacing Disk brake rotors? don't trust the installed races. [Re: wrcsixeight]
Phoenix Offline
pooh-bah

Registered: September 13th 2008 4:42 pm
Posts: 3156
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
Never took it any way but friendly ,,,Not a problem. I never re-torque bearings I guess you can but i don't unless I catch something wrong or feel something.Wheel bearings are just a personal feel. I keep spinning the rotor or drum while turning the nut in with my fingers until it is good and finger tight then I back it up until I get the cotter pin through the hole I just back up just enough to get that done and no more, just one notch. That's the way I have always done it for forty plus years and Knock wood I have never had any failures...ever ! Plus like I said I grease the s#%& out of them, cram them as full as possible
_________________________
Cheers!

Been There, done that, Member of those....

Built for comfort not for speed angel....Well speed too !...smile

I am a vanner, Promise me the world, give me nothing, I'll be back ... next year !

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#607572 - March 24th 2013 2:03 am Re: Replacing Disk brake rotors? don't trust the installed races. [Re: Phoenix]
wrcsixeight Offline
veteran

Registered: April 30th 2010 8:57 pm
Posts: 1631
Loc: San Diego
Rather than start a new thread I figured a little continuity would be good.

Sorry the photos I posted back in August '12 no longer show up, and rather than make you read what happened to this point here is the quick caveman grunted version.

'08 installed duralast rotors.
Installed Timken bearings on duralast chinese races.

no good. Different taper. Wore prematurely.

August '12 replaced races and bearings with SKF, stuffed with grease.

March'13 wheel slop returned.
bearings very loose on passenger side. Clunk on bump. Tire wearing funny
Inspect outer bearing, still pristine.
Repack, re install but spindle nut bottoms out on threads, cannot eliminate slop.
cotter pin barely catches castle nut.

Suspect cheap duralast rotors are machined improperly or otherwise damaged.

Buy pair of Brembo rotors for 130$. Find that Duralast rotor outer races can bottom out 2mm deeper than new Brembo. Didn't check inners.

Find all SKF bearings and races installed in August still pristine. Very low miles on them.

Carefully Remove One race on New Brembo rotors. Find it is SKF. Return this SKF race to Brembo rotor. Repack bearings with quality synthetic grease. Stuff hub with grease. Install new washer, spindle nut, castle nut retainer, cotterpin.

Tighten to 280 inch pounds while spinning rotor, back off 1/4 turn then finger tight as service manual states.

New caliper hardware installed.

Now all is well. No more loose wheels.

Grunt grunt.

In '08 I thought I was saving money by getting Duralast rotors for under 50$ each. I thought I was saving my self a headache by using the pre installed duralast races with new timken bearings.

Had I spent a little more initially for quality rotors, I would be 200$ richer today.

See foot, take aim, shoot.

Lesson learned.


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#607575 - March 24th 2013 6:26 am Re: Replacing Disk brake rotors? don't trust the installed races. [Re: wrcsixeight]
Doc 2% of Canada, EH!!!! Offline
Vanner

Registered: June 10th 2003 12:00 pm
Posts: 12337
Loc: Burlington, On, Canada Eh !!!!
Thanks for the recycled thread....new threads on the same subject just make it harder to find complaints and fixes...

I never use Off Shore replacement parts......especially steel parts as I have shipped enough recycled soup cans in containers to China for use in their industry......

I keep thinking that that load of coat hangers that were flawed and returned resurfaced as a Chev Aveo the next month rofl

I use only Bendix for stopping and Moog for turning and flexing...have never gone wrong with SKF matched bearing and races...Interesting comment on the race cups being oversize....after all a 10 year old uneducated kid on a cnc machine may not be all that accurate....
_________________________
I don't need to be honoured by Vanning, I am honoured to be Vanning !
Supporting Vanning, by going Vanning!
I hate it, when real life interferes with Vanning !
Ford Lover now in a Ford Body !
97Errorstar,05 Freestar
Van Clan Plus One, Vanning since 1977 !
Ontario Federation Of Truckers (Vanner's)
Ottawa Valley Vans
Founder,Mixed Bag Truckers
Co-Founder,Twisted Truckers,S Joisey,
If you don't like my sense of humour,don't read my posts !

Never assemble an engine after BUCKET !!

Top
#617169 - May 21st 2013 10:09 pm Re: Replacing Disk brake rotors? don't trust the installed races. [Re: wrcsixeight]
Ripper Offline
old hand

Registered: March 23rd 2006 12:00 pm
Posts: 962
Loc: Queens, NYC
I've had bearing grease actually burst into flames, but I can say that was on a car that we never checked the front bearings, and it was driven pretty hard. I was a kid, we were stupid.... I had friends who watched their car burn to the ground over bearing grease fires.

That said, if properly taken care of, that should never happen.
_________________________

Ripper

Queens, NYC
347-447-1672

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